• Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Topic: MADIface issue

Hello
I am in really need of assistance.
I have a trouble with the connection between my computer with MADIface and the mixer with MADI card.

When I get some sort of spike in the electric grid, even so small as connect/disconnect an extension cord (with no load) to the same outlet or to the same sub central.
It results in an interruption of MADI signal and the mixer looses the Wordclock signal and as an effect of that, about 5 sec of silence.
I have talked to a friend of mine who is an electronic expert. He suggested that it maybe have something to do with “antenna effect” something with RF from the cord itself (I don’t know anything about such things).

I have tested 5 different laptops from HP, Clevo, Zepto and a Macbookpro and all of them behave in the same way.
I have tested 3 MADI card for the Yamaha 01v96v2 mixer. Two from audioservice and one from Yamaha. The Yamaha card has a shorter interruption but still too long (anything is too long)
I have tested two different Yamaha01v96v2 mixers.
I have three different MADIface, and they behave the same way.
If I use another soundcard USB it’s no problem, no interruption at all (alesis MultiMix 4 USB).

If I run the computers without power adaptor It another story. Then I don´t get any interruption unless the extension cord is really close to the computer or the MADIface breakout. Or there is a physical connection with MADIface brakeoutbox and some other gear (probably earth).


Anders

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,565

Re: MADIface issue

Are you using optical or coax MADI cables?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Doesn´t matter the same result either way.

Anders

  • Ulrich
  • S/Mux specialist
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2008-05-31
  • Posts: 316

Re: MADIface issue

For connecting the MADIface with the computer, do you use the original cable delivered from RME together with the MADIface, or another cable?

Scary story...

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

I do use the original cable that came with the MADIface.

Really horrible, I dont know what to do.

Is there anyone that have the same equipment and have time to test if they get the same result. Just try to connect something a couple time to the same outlet as the other equipment is connected to.

Anders

  • From: Gothenburg, Sweden
  • Registered: 2007-05-01
  • Posts: 441

Re: MADIface issue

Hi,

Is it possible to check cable(s) with a real loopback I/0
and see with DigiCheck if the MADIface is working correctly !?

or if RME have some diagnostic tool to check with ?

regards S-EH

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,913

Re: MADIface issue

The problem is most probably the quality of your electric wiring at your place. Here are some things to try:

- only use optical MADI cables. First anyway and second to track down this effect.

- try a different FireWire cable (any should work)

- Connect the metal housing of the MADIface breakout box with power earth, means the same earth the computer is connected to. Either at the computer housing or the power sockets.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Ok
I have made ground connection between the breakout box and power earth in the outlet.
And changed the firewire to a different one, unfortunately 2m length.
The result is much better but not completely solved.

Anders

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Dear friends and colleagues

Today I have tried to lift the earthling for the whole system, with no further luck.
On Monday I will try to move the equipment to another location and test there.
Does anybody else had successes to reproduce this phenomenon or am I the only one with this issue.

Anders

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Hello again
Yesterday I tried to move all the equipment to a different building and another power source.
The same thing is still happening so I don´t think there is any problem there.
Have you at RME been able to reproduce this problem or is it just me?

Regards
Anders

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,565

Re: MADIface issue

This is not a known issue of the Madiface. Are you sure the "interruption of MADI signal" is not taking place on the mixer? Have you got another MADI source to test? If not, set the MF to Clock Master and loop a MADI cable from out to in, as S-E Hansson already suggested.... Try the same with the mixer. Then see whether the issue shows up again and where...

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Hello

I am glad to hear it´s not a known issue.
I have tested with my Mixtasy with MADI and it doesn’t behave in the same way.
I have little problem to understand how to check the signal with DigiCheck. I have done loopback but cannot hear if there is any problem since I can’t listen to the signal at the same time. And don’t really understand how to see or log the errors in DigiCheck.
If connect one computer to another with MADIfacees I can see that the slave loses the wordclock lock sync.
Maybe you can tell me how I should proceed testing with DigiCheck.

Best regards
Anders

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,565

Re: MADIface issue

Digicheck does not log errors. You can just watch the incoming level display and see whether it is interrupted or not...

Did you connect the Micstasy to the Madiface and there were no problems?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Hello again

No, I did connect the Mixtasy to the Yamaha mixer and it did not have any interruption at all.
When I connect the computers together can I see the  Digicheck bit statistic & noise  shows no problem but the DSP setting show that it loses sync and sometime even lock completely.

Best regards

Anders

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,565

Re: MADIface issue

Optical or coax connection?


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Only optical

Best regards
Anders

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Okay friends

Now I have done my homework finaly.

I done loopback testing and found out that.
With the Yamaha mixer there is no problem at all, not a single glitch.
With the computer and MADIface there are dropouts and I can see in the DSP settings that it looses sync. I also made a recording with Digicheck and could hear it as well
If I disconnect the powercable to the computer, is there much less dropouts,   but if I put the source of the disturbing (powersupply unit to a computer) close to the MADIface brakeoutbox then I do get dropouts.
As  I wrote earlier I have tested different computers so my conclusion is that it must be the MADIface and some RF disturbances.
Is there anything more I can do? Have you at RME been able to reproduce my problem?

Best regards
Anders

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Hello Daniel and Matthias
I don´t want to be pushy but I am wondering if you (at RME) are working on my issue.
Or if you’re not able to reproduce the phenomenon.
If I am the only one that suffering from this.
I am grateful for the help. I just want to know how I should proceed.

Best regards
Anders

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,565

Re: MADIface issue

Hello,

I'm afraid this isn't something we can really actively "work on". This is indeed not a known issue, we have no similar user reports, and also hasn't occured on any of our devices. It could of course be an issue of your individual device. You could send it in for a service, hopefully it can be reproduced at the factory and fixed.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Thank you for your answer Daniel

Just so I understand. Have you or someone at RME tested to do a loopback and seen what´s happening or is it a conclusion of that it´s never have happened to you before and it´s not a reported earlier.
I don’t think it has something to do with my individual MADIface because I have three, bought in two different occasions.

Best regards
Anders

21 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,913

Re: MADIface issue

We do not have your electric wiring and computer. I do a loopback and switch on the light (which makes some nice crack in my analog monitors), but the MADI loop stays unaffected...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 19

Re: MADIface issue

Thank you Matthias

Then I know there are at least two systems that don’t show my symptoms.
This means that there is some hope that I can solve this.
I have tested in a third location today and will try a fourth tomorrow and are pretty sure it´s not my wiring, at least not only that to blame.
What I found out so far is that there is a couple of phenomenon that makes up the big problem.
When I did my loopback test with only computer and MADIface I had to provoke the computer pretty hard. In that small system had I to connect and disconnect the power cord to the laptop itself to get the glitches (actually several times in a row )but when I make the system more complex the problems multiplies.
I really hope there are other users that could help me testing to see if I am the only one with this problem.

Best regards
Anders

23 Reply by JOS

  • JOS
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-07-30
  • Posts: 1

Re: MADIface issue

Hello Anders,

I experienced the same MADI interupption when I did anything with the electricity (plugging in a lose power cord e.g.). Also anything I tried (cabling, shielding e.g.) didn't solve the problem.
But the problem hasn't occured since I bought a new laptop. I had a HP Pavilion laptop and I recently bought a ADK Q1 laptop and since I use the new laptop the problem disappeard.

Gr. JOS