• Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Topic: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hi all!

Today I got my second Fireface 800 to have 16 output channels.
I have a Mac Mini server (i7, Lion latest version), left my old FF connected, connected the new FF to the old one with a FW800 cable, set up the aggregate device in Audio Setup, configured Cubase (6.0.6) and started checking my new setup.
I still didn't connected the audio outs of the new FF to my mixer so I checked using my headphones.
My problem: after 5 minutes of perfect sound coming from both the interfaces, the new one starts behaving weird: the sound is more and more "bitcrushed" and in about 1 minute there is no more sound coming out from the new interface. The old one is working fine. If I switch from the aggregate device to one single interface (no matter if the old or the new one) it works perfectly. So my problem has nothing to do with the new interface being broken, it has only to do with the use of both interfaces at the same time. Please note that my problem is there no matter what load I have on my computer CPU: even with just 2% of load, the new interface (when used with the aggregate device) starts "bitcrushing" the sound and goes mute after 1 minute.

Any suggestion?

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,560

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Seems there is no physical sync (e.g. Word Clock) between the devices... Set up one as Master and have the other snyc to Word Clock.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hello Daniel, thanks for your reply.

I followed your instructions but the prolem is still there: the sound is degraded after some minutes until it completely disappears.
If I go in Apple Audio Setup and change the master interface, correct sound is reestablished. But after a little while here we go again with that "bitcrushing".

What can I try?

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

I was planning to add the 3rd interface but now I am in doubt. Anyway: how do I sync all 3? I read the manual but I didn't find any information about cascading and syncing 3 FFs.

For now I connected the wordclock output of FF #1 (master) to wordclock input of FF #2 (slave). But how do I sync the #3? How should I connect them? Thanks!

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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  • From: USA
  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,621

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

The clocking should be configured in the Fireface Settings application, not in Apple control panels. See here: http://youtu.be/Oibj81QIq4s

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Thanks, I just watched the video and found that information about word clock termination: I was missing that. I guess this was the origin of my problems, I will check it later.

How do I connect the 3rd interface? Wordclock output of #2 connected to wordclock input of #3 and wordclock of #3 terminated? Like that? Thanks!

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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  • Registered: 2007-05-21
  • Posts: 4,621

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Sure, that works. With the FF800s, both WC inputs should be terminated when connected in this way. This shouldn't really cause any problem like you describe though. Double check your settings and the Sync status.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Thanks for your reply. I will borrow the 3rd FF from a friend and test everything. If everything runs fine I will buy one so that I can have full 24 channels on my desk.

  • Jeff
  • Jeff
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Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

There is also a possibility of FireWire trouble. Make sure you don't have other devices connected to the Mac on FireWire, and use the "Limit Bandwidth" settings on each FF800 to see if it helps.

Regards,
Jeff Petersen
Synthax Inc.

Jeff's Website

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

OK I will follow your advice. Thanks!

  • Joss
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  • Registered: 2012-04-22
  • Posts: 6

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hi, Edrome!
I have the same problem like yours.
5 years two my RME 800 worked perfectly like Aggregate Device.
Suddenly 1 week ago April 14 starts play with bit crashed sound after 2-5 minutes playing on slave RME (no matter if the one RME put like slave or second RME put like slave). Master RME 800 working perfectly.
My OS was Snow Leopard 10.6.8. RME driver version 2.80 (or 2.75, don't remember) Firmware v2.77.
Ons Lion this bug also happened with RME driver vets 3.06

But today i installed Mac os Snow Liopard 10.6 (without any updates). RME driver 2.89. It looks like worked.
Two my cards RME 800 played without bit crasher Master and Slave.

Do you clear your problem on your OS Lion latest version?
On My lion latest version RME worked with bit crasher on slave RME 800.

Can you write your result there?

RME Support, please help me with this problem.

  • Joss
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  • Registered: 2012-04-22
  • Posts: 6

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

My RME 800 connected for sync via SPDIF (also tried  WORD CLOCK, ADAT1, ADAT2).

  • Joss
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  • Registered: 2012-04-22
  • Posts: 6

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

When bit crashed sound started i plug out sync cable (now it's ADAT1) and after 1 second plug in again. Sound play normal without bit crasher.... What is it??

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hello Joss!

I have in the meanwhile 3 FF800 :-)
All of them have latest Firmware and drivers are updated to the latest version too.

They are synced using Word Clock as follows:
FF800 #1 WC OUT > FF800 #2 WC IN
FF800 #2 WC OUT > FF800 #3 WC IN
FF800 #2 and #3 have WC terminated.

Some days ago I had a big problem with my computer and it was impossible to restore (using Time Machine) to OSX 10.7.3 so I restored from an older backup with OSX 10.7.2.
It seems to me that Lion 7.2 is more stable than Lion 7.3: that's why now I decided to stick to 7.2!

At the moment my "bit crushing" problems disappeared but there is a situation in which they appear again: If I record using one FF800 and monitor using the output of one of the the others: in this case the "bit crushing" effect is back. Now I know this limitation but I can live wth it and I record and monitor using the same FF800. It's OK for me, I don't know if this is a limitation of the FF system or if there is something wrong in my configuration. I simply accept it as it is because I can live with it.

In the next days I will work quite intensively in the studio so that my configuration will be put under stress: If I should have any problems I will post here again.

Have a good day!

  • Joss
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  • Registered: 2012-04-22
  • Posts: 6

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Dear Edorme, thank you for your answer.
I hav confog:
FF800 #1 WC OUT > FF800 #2 WC IN
FF800 #2 have WC terminated.
I put Bandwidth Limit Analog 1-8 but it Not help. (in FF Settings)

Unfortunately i use like record and monitor 2 units at the same time... And Bit crasher happens suddenly... Some tim it happens in 30 sec after play, some times in 15 min...
You know in Snow Leopard 10.6.6 bit crash not happens. But need to for on latest software, because newline plugins release for latest OSX etc.

5 years it works perfectly, now - trouble...

And can you check please, if the  record and monitoring on 192 KHZ  it works?
On my latest Lion 192 not work's bd sound.
On Snow Leopard 10.6.6 192 KHZ works perfectly.

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hello Joss!

I will check with 192KHx as soon as I have time and post here my results.

I work at 16/44.1.

I have Lion because my MacMini Server (i7) was shipped with Lion installed, so I can't put SL. 10.7.2 seems OK for now.

If you worked for 5 years on SL (or older OS) with no troubles and now you have troubles with Lion I suppose the problem is Lion. Maybe someone at RME can give us more info?

17 Reply by edorme (edited by edorme 2012-06-03 09:03:14)

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hello All!

After a while I have to report that my problem is back again. I have no idea about the reason for that. I didn't change anything since my last post: the 3 FF800s haven't been moved, the computer is still the same with the same OS version, cabling, termination etc. untouched.

It happens that after a while one (or two) of the FF800s starts crackling (bit crusher effect) and in about one minute there is nothing more to hear. It always affects only the slaves, never the master. If I change configuration (different order in firewire connection; different order in WC sinc, different order in aggregate device in Audio Setup etc.) the problem shows again in the same way (it always affects only the FF800 being the current slaves, so it's to exclude that one or more of the FF800s is/are broken). The only "cure" is to change shortly the master FF800 in Audio Setup, so that another FF800 becomes the master and then immediately switch back. The sound is back but after a while the "bit crushing" starts again.

Any suggestion is very welcomed because this thing is making me crazy!

  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Please, I really need some help!

I simply cannot work! 3x FF800s and only the one being the master works with no problems, the other two produce that "bit crusher" effect until no audio is to be heard anymore!

I work at 16/44.1 with Cubase. The same problem occurs with Ableton Live, so I am sure it's not the software.

I recap my configuration:

Firewire: MacMini > FF800 #1 > FF800 #2 > FF800 #3
WordClock: FF800 #1 (master) > FF800 #2 (autosync, terminated) > FF800 #3 (autosync, terminated)

When the "bit crusher" effect starts (every 5 minutes or sometimes even more often) I can do the following to reset:

1) In Audio Midi Setup: Change the master FF800 (and then eventually change back to the original master)
2) In Cubase: Open Device Setup > Control Panel and close it (no need for changing the buffer size, it resets anyway)
3) In Live: I didn't find any workaround, so I use method 1)

In both cases the sound is back but just for a few minutes, then I get the "bit crusher" effect and no audio again... and again... and again!

It's IMPOSSBLE to work!

19 Reply by lapieuvre (edited by lapieuvre 2012-06-18 14:44:31)

  • Registered: 2010-12-22
  • Posts: 48

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Just a question, instead of using 3 FF800 to get 24 outputs, why not just and Adat to Analog converter and you would only use 1 soundcard?  The FF800 has 16 audio outputs from Adat.

Or Use the FF800 as standalone units to do the Adat to Analog conversion, without hooking them to the Mac

MBP M1 Max, 64 Gigs RAM, IOS Ventura
ADI-8 QS and UAD Apollo Twin Thunderbolt
  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

lapieuvre, thank you for posting here.

I need the ADAT connections of at least 1 unit to drive an Expert Sleepers ES-3 (2 of them in the future). Just for information: even if the ES-3 is not connected the problem is still there!

Besides that, I'd really would like the system to work the way I like to configure it (which is, by the way, just the way explained in the video above and in all ads etc.)

I limited the bandwith as follows:

FF800 #1 ANALOG+SPDIF+ADAT1
FF800 #2 ANALOG
FF800 #3 ANALOG

The problem is there no matter how many tracks I use: even just 1 mono track, 16x44, no plugins -> BIT CRUSHER!

I am wondering about the fact that I am the only user with this problem. What wrong with my system? :-(

It's a great disappointment because I invested quite some cash to get the 3 FF800s and I like them so much!

I really hope some RME expert can help me.

  • Registered: 2010-12-22
  • Posts: 48

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

Hope you have success.  I already created an aggregate device with Hdspe Madi and a Fireface 800 and worked great.

I have this behavior with my Mac Mini server, but with a Fireface UC.  After a while I get some kind of bitcrushing you talk about...  No aggregate, just one soundcard.  Wonder if it's not the Mac Mini the problem...

MBP M1 Max, 64 Gigs RAM, IOS Ventura
ADI-8 QS and UAD Apollo Twin Thunderbolt
  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

hi lapieuvre,

yes, I am starting to think that the problem could be the MacMini. Maybe its FW is somewhat "limited"? Or could it be an OSX issue? I have OSX 10.7.2 and I am willing to upgrade to a newer version only if I would be sure that this could lead to solve my problem. Unfortunately I don't have a second computer to test my FF800 configuration.

All I can say is that, as long as I use only 1 FF800 everything runs like a charm, as soon as the second or the third are connected starts the hell. No matter in which order etc., the problem regards only the FF800/FF800s being slave, the master FF800 works perfectly.

But I'd really appreciate if someone at RME would take seriously my problem because I am quite desperate (it's impossible to work).

  • Registered: 2010-12-22
  • Posts: 48

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

I still had no answer from tech support, hope they do soon.  Good luck on your case.

MBP M1 Max, 64 Gigs RAM, IOS Ventura
ADI-8 QS and UAD Apollo Twin Thunderbolt
  • Registered: 2012-03-03
  • Posts: 18

Re: Problem with 2 Fireface 800

thank you lapieuvre! I will contact tech support directly too, I hate to do this but this time it's really needed.