1 Topic by DanButsu (edited by DanButsu 2012-02-14 18:10:27)

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Topic: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Greetings,

I have a FF400 and I am out of I/O for outboard gear (multiple compressors, Reverb/FX unit, stereo imaging processors...). I was wondering what would be the best I/O expansion solution?

I would ideally like an RME solution, I was hoping for the Multiface II but I am not sure if it will work. I have a MacBook Pro w/fw800 (no PCI). Since I have no PCI slot, can I use the Multiface as a stand alone and simply connect it to the FF400 via ADAT? I think I understand that I need to connect the MF to a computer that has PCI to first be able to set my I/O routings in the Matrix and then flash current mixer state. Then my settings will be loaded by default by the hardware in stand alone mode. Will it then work as a slave to the FF400 via ADAT without the PCI connection?

Thanks all, Dan

2 Reply by DanButsu (edited by DanButsu 2012-02-14 22:54:50)

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Here is the reply I got from the RME customer support. Really great service, they replied within hours and were nice enough to exchange a few more emails with me until I got it all right. I'm posting this here so if others have similar questions this might help them as much as it has me:

Dan,

yes your assumption is correct. First you connect the Multiface to another computer and set the following routing: Analog inputs -> ADAT output and ADAT inputs -> Analog Outputs.

Then you disconnect the Multiface and it will keep the routing in stand-alone mode. Now you connect it to the Fireface 400 via ADAT and control its levels via the FF400’s ADAT channels.

Regards,
RME Support

---------------

Thank you for replying so quickly. I really appreciate it. Just to confirm that it will work once again. I want to connect outboard equipment (compressors, reverb unit...) to the multiface then the multiface to the ff400 via ADAT. Does the following signal path work:

-Compressor out to MF input 1
-MF output 1 to Compressor input
-Repeat for all other outboard gear for inputs 2 to 8
-setup MF matrix as mentioned in your email. I assume I must do the same for the ff400 matrix ADAT in/out?

Then:
-ADAT out from MF to ADAT in of ff400
-ADAT out from ff400 to ADAT in on MF

Will this complete the signal path to be able to use the external equipment via the MF --> ff400 --> to and from Pro Tools?

Will I need a word clock connection between the MF and ff400?

Will I loose my matrix settings on the MF if it is unplugged from it's external power supply?

Sorry for all the questions, I just need to be sure of these things before I buy the MF

Cheers, Dan

-----------------

Dan,

you got it all right, but you do not need to setup the matrix of the FF400. Instead you use the FF400’s ADAT I/Os in Protools to work with the Multiface while still having all analog I/Os of the FF400 free for other things. Keep in mind that you will get additional round-trip latency by connecting outboard gear (audio + safety buffer of the FF400 driver + DA/AD converter latency of the MF).

A wordclock connection should not be needed, since ADAT already takes care of sync. Just make sure to use the FF400 as ADAT Slave in order to sync it to the clock of the MF. Unfortunately the MF has no internal memory (unlike the FF400) and thus will lose its settings once you cut power. But once you reconnect it to the computer with its former Totalmix preset it will reload the settings.

Regards,
RME Support

  • From: Connecticut, USA
  • Registered: 2011-08-01
  • Posts: 376

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Hi Dan,
You will need the HDSP PCI or PCI-e card in order to use the Multiface with this setup.
So you are buying 2 items. The Multiface II and the HDSP PCI/PCIe card.
Or in the case of the Mac Book Pro  you will need the HDSP express 34 card.
On current MBP only the 17" model has an express slot.

Personally I think it will be a better idea to get either a new or used Fireface 400 or Fireface UC and use it as a stand alone AD/DA.
Once you set the routing up it can be stored permanent in the device even when power is lost.
The price difference between this an getting a Multiface with either the HDSP PCI/PCI-e or express card will be very minimal.
But will be much less of a hassle to setup and use.
You will also have the benefits of more Mic-Pres and using the exact same converters as your current FF400.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

ChrisLudwig's Website

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Thanks Chris for the reply and you are right; it is a hassle to configure, but a MFII used (once for 48hrs) at $500 Canadian is worth the hassle wink

I have an old PC with the PCMCIA slot for the MF and currently have it all hooked up. The FF is connected to my Mac via FireWire and is the main interface for my system and Pro Tools. I have the ADAT I/Os connecting the FF and the MF together. MF is in disconnect mode and set to Master, the FF is set to Slave.

I am still not getting the signal to flow out of the FF to the MF and back via ADAT. I did the appropriate routing in TotalMix on the MF (see picture below) and spent 3 days fooling around with it to no avail.  I cannot get a closed loop where I send out from Pro Tools via ADAT on the FF, to the ADAT in on the MF then out to the outboard gear and back through to Pro Tools (in this case a Behringer Edison EX1 Stereo Imager hooked up as follows: Left xlr out on the Behringer to MF 1/4 #1 in and MF 1/4 #1 out to left xlr in on the Behringer. Repeated for the right channel to 1/4 #2 in/out).

I can however create a feedback loop in the MF TotalMix that I can send out through ADAT to the FF ADAT in and I receive it in Pro Tools! I can also send a signal out from PT via the FF S/PDIF through the MF alone (no gear) and back into PT. Just can't do the same with ADAT, nothing comes IN to the MF. The MF front panel has nothing at all lit up in this configuration, where as the FF has Wordclock and ADAT lit up! I can only get the MF to "light up" when both are set to S/PDIF Sync, then the MF S/PDIF light is on!

Please see the picture below of my MF TotalMix configuration for the MF in disconnect mode. The TotalMix on the FF is set to default!

What am I doing wrong? I am desperate to get this working. I initially got this as I needed more outboard gear for a project I'm working on. I'm at a loss!

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1548/rmerounting.jpg

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,560

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Please provide screenshots of both units' settings and mixer windows (not the matrix).


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Hi Daniel. I am at work and will do the screenshots tonight. Thanks for the reply. Cheers

7 Reply by DanButsu (edited by DanButsu 2012-02-21 01:33:12)

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Hi there. As requested, here are the pictures of my settings and Mixers for the FF and MF. The FireFace is the one the Pro Tools is talking to as an audio interface and the MultiFace is the external converter.


FireFace 400 Mixer and Settings:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6600/totalmixff400.png






MultiFace II Mixer and Settings:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/875/totalmixmfii2.png






MultiFace II Mixer Subgroup selected:

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4674/totalmixmfiisubmixchana.png






Picture of the front of the units (ADAT and WC Sync on FF but nothing on MF):

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8426/ffandmffront.jpg

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,560

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

The MF seems to be off... Is it getting external power? If yes, it should be showing the HOST LED in Disconnect Mode.
Please repeat this with Disconnect deactivated, there is no need for this in this setup.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

9 Reply by DanButsu (edited by DanButsu 2012-02-21 13:43:19)

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Hello. The MF is powered externally. When I turn off the PC that it is connected to, the host light flashes red. The only time I get any lights on the MF is if I set SPDIF sync on the FF with SPIDIF out selected. With optical in selected on the MF the SPDIF light turns green! I'm still getting no lights on the MF in "connected" mode! Cheers

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,560

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Seems you have the MF's optical I/Os both switched to SPDIF mode...
What does the HDSP dialog show when the MF is connected?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

11 Reply by DanButsu (edited by DanButsu 2012-02-21 19:57:16)

  • Registered: 2012-02-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Got it! It was the power supply. I switched it to another one and the MF ADAT light came on and my routing in and out of Pro Tools now work!!! You got me thinking when you said the unit looks off, but was indeed plugged in. Thanks for all your support, you guys are great. Cheers


Here's the FireFace working with out 11-12 from Pro Tools on GTR2


http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6025/totalmixffworking.png



Here's the MultiFace working now:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8366/totalmixmfiiworking.png

  • apcnt
  • New member
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  • Registered: 2014-01-22
  • Posts: 1

Re: Expanding FF400 I/O with a Multiface II

Hello, is this exact setup also possible with a Multiface MK1?

If so, how do you get these extra channels over ADAT in your DAW (ableton)?

Thanks!