Topic: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi,
i have a MacBook Pro(Unibody) 2,4 Core Duo with 4GB Ram and a HDSPe ExpressCard with OSX 10.5.8. I use the latest driver from this website. After a few minutes the whole system freezes with a really short buffer stuck. This is really annoying. When i wont find a solution i have to send the card back...
Any ideas?

Regards
Malte

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I installed the older driver and i have the same result. After about 10 minutes playback at 192s latency, while playing notes on a midi keyboardi the system freezes. Looks like with out playing notes everything is fine. Completly reproducable. I have no idea what to do, i think i have to give the card back. I use Ableton 8.1.

Please RME, HELP

Malte

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hello RME, would be nice to get some sort of feedback. Are you need more information? Is there capacity to test this issue at the moment? I feel a bit lost and ignored at the moment here. Talked with the telephone support but they just say they never heard of that problem...

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I said it wasn't a common issue, else this forum and my mailbox would be full of it...
Please test other software also.

In any case, I've forwarded the issue.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi've the same problem and hi check two recording sofware, ( logic studio, reaper ), and each time that the same, the OS crach

6 (edited by Timur 2009-12-06 10:38:05)

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Does it happen when you start the Mac with the HDSPe already plugged in?

Are OS X system sounds set to play over the HDSPe or over the inbuild speakers (OS X turns off the system speakers after 30 seconds of no sound playing, usually shouldn't be a problem, but maybe something is messed up)?

Did you use the Flash updater lately?

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

for me it happend both plugged when hi start, and plugged after start, and hi don't use the flash updater

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I updated the card with the latest flash update. It happend when i use this card with Ableton Live 8.1 I havend checked other software yet but Ableton is the App with it should work. i will test Cubase today...

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

i just installed OSX 10.6.2. Same issue. Freezes really quickly whith the latest drivers. I think i have to send it back. Any ideas?

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi,

my configuration: MacBook Pro 15 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM, RME HDSPe Express Card + Multiface. I've got the same problem, but:

1. The system freezes only with the Nvidia 9600M graphics card (to switch between the cards you have to choose the 'Higher Performance' in System Preferences / Energy Saver) and Express Card is plugged in. There's no problem using the Nvidia 9400M + RME HDSPe Express Card.

2. I do not have to open DAW (I use Logic) to get the system frozen in few minutes. The system freezes when listening iTunes or even using online metronome (the website with the metronome application). Of course it freezes also with Logic.

3. Now I've got the Snow Leopard, but I have had the same situation with Leopard 10.5.

4. RME software: the same situation with hdspe_267 and hdspe_270, HDSP Flash Update 2.16 and 2.20.

Dear RME guys, please help!

Thank you,

cheers,

Konrad

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hello,

my setup:

MacBook Pro 2.4Ghz, 2GB, 10.6.2
hammerfall 1 interface, PCI express card
driver 2.70

1. After updating to leopard the system freezed when I played audio. I checked: ah, I must update flash and driver. so I did.

2. Now system freezed soon after I start playing audio through it. It happens with skype and ichat and itunes. no audio production software tested so far.

3. I read "please deinstall old driver first" in the forum. hm, this should be written in the readme but it isn?t. I thought I might trash all the hammerfall files as indicated here (http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic … 681#p23681) and install driver 2.70 again. maybe this solves the issue.
But now no audio comes out at all. hammerfall mixer and setup won?t start. At starting it manually, they try to come up and immediately close themselves.

so through trying to stop the issue it even got worse. I cannot use the hammerfall at all right now.

any suggestions are welcome.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I'm the owner of the company which resales the pro audio gear, some as the distributor, some as a dealer. I always recomend to my customers to buy RME gear, because RME has a very good support team and they help immediately. And now I've got the problem with my own RME card and nobody helps...

Dear RME guys, please help! I can not work and I check this topic everyday...

Thank you,

Konrad

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi,

to add a marginal (and hopefully unrelated) second issue I have with my powerbook: the screen flashes to black for fractions of a second once in a while when using the smaller of the two graphic cards. In the energy savongs dialog I switched to the "hoehere Leistung" / more power option graphic card and the problem is gone. anyone in this thread got this problem too?

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hello Wettermann,

it's a very popular problem with MacBook Pro late 2008, it's very easy to find this problem at the apple forums. Please contact Apple support. And this is our problem: the smaller graphics card (Nvidia 9400) flashes, the bigger one (Nvidia 9600) freezes the system when using RME card... There's no way to work..

RME support, please!

All the Best,

Konrad

15 (edited by Timur 2010-01-12 14:20:03)

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I cannot speak for the non Unibody Macbook Pros, but the Unibody ones cannot be trusted when it comes to the ExpressCars slot on OS X. That being said I only managed to cause data corruption and Kernel Panics when using high bandwidth and transfering lots of data. The HDSPe does not really fit that category apart from doing a firmware flash (which was fixed by RME by slowing down the flash process).

In my own tests I had the HDSPe + MF2 running for quite some time without getting crashes, freezes or Panics. But I know that you can make the ExpressCard slot of the Unibody Macbook Pros to behave exactly like that, so maybe on your setups even the slower bandwidth of pure audio transmission leads to such problems.

It *could* be a RME driver related problem, but knowing how I saw the same issues with both a TI based Firewire card and even alot worse with a Jmicron based eSATA card (that uses OS X own internal drivers!) I really don't trust the EC slot. Especially since the same eSATA card runs flawlessly on bootcamped Windows XP (Vista/W7 cannot even access the MBP's EC, blame Apple) and on Vista on a HP laptop.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi,

thank you so much. But... could you, guys, check it? Do you have any possibility to contact Apple and fix this problem? As you can see it's a very popular problem, and a lot of RME users can not work with the gear that they paid for... I trust RME does not leave the RME users in the lurch...

Thank you,

I keep my fingers crossed!

All the Best,

Konrad

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

malte wrote:

Hi,
i have a MacBook Pro(Unibody) 2,4 Core Duo with 4GB Ram and a HDSPe ExpressCard with OSX 10.5.8. I use the latest driver from this website. After a few minutes the whole system freezes with a really short buffer stuck. This is really annoying. When i wont find a solution i have to send the card back...
Any ideas?

Regards
Malte

Hi,
i do have similar problems though i have a pc in windows 7 (Intel Core Duo 3,6 with 4GB Ram9) and also HDSPe Express Card and the latest drivers.
i work with cubase and experience similar freezing problems.

Today i managed to use both together once, when i didn't activate the Settings and TotalMixer Software.

Would be interesting to know if more mac and pc users have similar problems!

greetings

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I'm trying to get Apple onto it for over a year now. Only thing it brought me was a replacement 2009 17" MBP for my 2008 15" MBP, but the ExpressCard issues are the same.

After I received the replacement unit I got a mail from the contact person asking if I am happy with it. I replied that no, I'd prefer to have it fixed. Wrote two times since then and got no replies. Wrote to "feedback" at Apples, contacted german support and after lots of trying was put through to a technician. The only thing he came up with after two weeks was to replace the unit. And here we are...

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

hello, i've recording last night a show with my macbookpro 15"2008 and the express card, i switch the graphic card on the 9400 one, and no crach happend the recording is ok.

my setting is 48 KHertz and 16 bits with 35 tracks it's really a graphic card probleme ! I'll send a feedback of the situation to apple

thanks to users for your help

Philarsen .

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi Philarsen,

yes, this is true. Please keep us informed regarding the apple feedback.

And I still hope RME helps us. Dear RME, please let us know what to do!

Thank you,

All the Best,

Konrad

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I'll go on monday to an official mac shop to report the bug

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi,

will keep my fingers crossed!

Cheers,

Konrad

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hello all, just checking in to see if anybody here finally overcame their freeze issues and got his/her Express card to work ? I've just made the switch from PC to Macbook pro OS 10.6.2 / Core 2 duo 2.4GHz / 2 GHZ ram with the infamous NVIDIA 9400M and 9600M GT. tried all the tricks offered here without success. Please help

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi again, sorry to insist, but as anyone found a workaround for this glitch ?

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi, unfortunately there's nothing new... Maybe we all should write directly, everyday, to the RME guys? I do not know what is the problem with - with RME soft or with the Apple soft. I check the new drivers at the RME's website everyday, and - I've heard - the new OS X upgrade is expected in the near future... I give up hope day by day...

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I'm still poking Apple to look into their 2008/2009 Macbook ExpressCard problems. Unfortunately the new guy now works through the *whole* incident from the very begining and also tries to find out why Apple's exchange-service didn't answer my mails anymore. So this can take some time again.

That being said: I don't expect any fix from Apple for the 2008/2009 line, but first user feedback on the Macrumor forum seems to imply that the new 2010 Macbook's ExpressCard 2.0 slot (new hardware!) transfers uncorrupted and non kernel panicing data with JMicron based ESATA cards.

Since the driver for the Jmicron/ESATA/AHCI is the same I have some hopes that the new hardware/port may finally work properly. (Additionally it finally works with Windows Vista/7 according to some post on the RME forum).

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Thanks for sticking to this & posting an update.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

In case it's of any use, I'm also having some problems on a Dell laptop which may be related.

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8365

Matthias is saying it may be down to BIOS and power saving setup.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi All,

There is definitely a problem between the Macbook graphics adapter and the Rme express card. I have switched as mentioned earlier in this thread to the lower bandwidth graphics and it stopped freezing the mac instantly. I think you RME guys need to accept you have a problem and sort it. I own quite a few of your products, but thank god they work because when you have a problem you say you haven't, and keep quiet!

If the problem is the Macbook, surely RME is a large enough company to meet face to face with the tech guys from apple and sort this out? or do you deem it ok to just keep selling your very expensive products to people without publishing a disclaimer to point out it may not work properly?

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I'm still working on this. Apple refused to give me any further support (and even refused to give me that refusal in written form).

But during the last few days I was able to reproduce electrical issues with the MBP that point to some very serious grounding problems (as I have suspected before). News is that I can make *any* tested ExpressCard drop its connection, Kernel Panic or freeze by simply touching the chassis around the USB and Displayport with a grounded connector (USB hub or Display with its own power-supply)!

I tested the following cards:

1 37,90 EUR LaCie SATAII ExpressCard 34 2x eSATA Mac/PC
2 45,90 EUR Sonnet Tempo SATA E34P ExpressCard 34 2x eSATA Mac/PC
3 40,90 EUR format EC342SEMB 2fach eSATA ExpressCard34 bootf?hig
4 40,90 EUR DeLOCK ExpressCard 34 1x eSATA Mac/PC
5 50,90 EUR Sonnet Tempo SATA Edge ExpressCard 34 1x eSATA Mac/PC
6 201,90 EUR Sonnet Tempo Pro SATA E34P ExpressCard 34 2x eSATA Mac/PC
7 65,90 EUR LaCie FireWire800 ExpressCard 34 2x FW800 Mac/PC
8 65,90 EUR Sunix Firewire 800 ExpressCard f?r ExpressCard 34-Steckplatz Mac/PC

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Crumbs - Apple really seem to be dropping the ball on this one then!

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Not that I'm defending Apple in any way, but why would you ground the body of your MBP to another device's ground? That's not something anyone would typically do. If you could demonstrate the same issue caused by a typical user activity, that would be something they can't deny is a problem. If there is something electrically wrong, there has to be a simple way to reproduce it.

I really wish you luck. No matter how humanitarian, whistle-blowers usually get crapped on in our societies because they're not on the shareholder's side.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

33 (edited by Timur 2010-09-02 17:40:36)

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

What you ask is: Why would you want to connect an external display or powered USB device (like a FF UC or powered USB hub)? And that is all I am doing here, connect an external device to the ports that are meant to support this.

Neither the USB hub nor the UC comes with security-grounding connections btw (2-pin plugs), only the display does (german "Schuko" 3-pin plug). Neither does the external HD chassis.

There is no way around touching mass to mass, it happens whenever you plug in a connector and is even meant to be this way (mass connections protrude on most connectors and the outer metal ring of these connectors is connected to mass as well). It's not much voltage by the way, but that even makes it worse (small cause, big impact).

That being said: The grounding disconnection with an external connector is only a way of making the issues very reproducible. You *do* get errors without doing that, too, just a lot more sporadic and a lot better for Apple to discuss away. You will get the same data-corruption, drop-outs, Kernel Panics and Freezes, but not on command, but more out of the blue (like a lot of people are reporting here and on other forums).

The expensive Sonnet Tempo Pro (Marvell) and the Firewire card seem to be the least affected (in my 2008 15" a TI based FW card caused havoc though).

But I also had the Jmicron and SIL based cards run error-free for hours and hours and then all of a sudden I had several runs with errors in a row and then again it worked error free. The JMicron even once caused an error when I put my hand on the MBP to type something (might have been a coincidence, but I don't think so).

34

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

mass = ground or shield. security = safety. :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

While I was writing this I thought about looking into a dictionary, but it was too late and since I used the word security it seemed clear enough. tongue

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Timur wrote:

What you ask is: Why would you want to connect an external display or powered USB device (like a FF UC or powered USB hub)? And that is all I am doing here, connect an external device to the ports that are meant to support this.

I seem to have misunderstood. You specifically mentioned "...touching the chassis around the USB and Displayboard with a grounded connector", so I assumed you weren't just plugging the USB and Display ports into their sockets (ground connection required for operation) but touching the exposed ground of the USB and/or Display port connector to the body of the MBP. On my 2007 MBP, all the external connectors are surrounded by a plastic edge, so this could only happen if you're not looking at what your doing; however, this could in fact occur if you're not, so I see your point.

In any case, it shouldn't cause the problems you're describing. Thanks for your efforts pinning this problem down; I guess I'll hang on to my 2007 MBP as long as I can (1 Logic Board replacement already). Too bad this doesn't affect iPads, iPods and iPhones... Another outrageous hump under the bumpy carpet known as Apple Customer Service.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Last week an Apple Store opened doors in my town (this is only the 4th stoor in all of Germany). Since the attourney I went to didn't like to send letters to Ireland (Apple has no official adress in Germany) he agreed that it was worth a try to present the issues directly to an Apple "Genius" (aka a *real* Apple employed technician).?

I went there with my 17" 2009 Macbook Pro being frozen in OS X, which means that I had to carry it open in my hands because it went quite warm. I asked the "Genius" if he could think about any method how I could have made the MBP freeze. He answered "It should not be possible at all". Then I made it freeze again right before his eyes by simply *touching* (not even connecting) the USB port with the USB cable of a Fireface UC while data was being transfered over an eSATA ExpressCard.

Furthermore I demonstrated how data corruption occurs even when you don't touch the MBP with both its PSU being connected *and* disconnected (aka battery power). Last but not least I gave them screenshots of irreparable HFS+ partitions and Kernel logs of the Sonnet Tempo Pro freaking out.

I left the MBP there with three different eSATA ExpressCards and three different cables (2x eSATA-eSATA, 1x eSATA-SATA). They sell an external HD with eSATA port there, but don't sell any ExpressCard to make use of it, nor do they recommend any apart from "they should *all* work". It's been 4 days since I left the stuff there and I will give them the full 5-7 days they asked for before I go back in (call my familiy if I don't come out within 2 hours, hehe).

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

2.5 weeks after leaving the Macbook Pro 17" 2009 at the Apple Store and 22 months after my first call to Apple about the ExpressCard issue I have my first written statement by Apple saying:

Issue Verified: Yes

So far so good. Since the Apple Store is working on the issue for the first time they asked to first try another Logic Board replacement before discussing other options. I agreed and so my MBP stays with them for likely another week.

Interesting sidenote: When they booted from an external Firewire (!) HD they could not reproduce the issues, so having the Firewire connection running seems to have an impact. To me this seems to be another indication for electrical/power problems.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

has anyone found a way to avoid this system freeze in macbookpro and hdspe express card ?

40 (edited by Timur Born 2012-03-12 22:11:23)

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

It likely still depends on what version of Macbook Pro you got. I am using a 2011 17" MBP now and saw no freeze happening with a HDSPe + MF2 as of yet.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Sorry to bump an "old-ish" topic, but I am considering purchasing an HDSPe Expresscard for use with my Multiface II (currently using a PCI-e one in my desktop workstation), and my A1226 2007/2008 Macbook Pro 15.  It's one of those ones with the Geforce 8600M (thankfully with a new logic board).

Has anyone had any luck using the HDSPe Expresscard with these Macbook Pros?  OS X or Win 7 64-bit?  (I prefer to use the latter)  Messages detailing any experiences, good or bad, would be appreciated. PM me, even.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hello,
We have a 17" MBP of your noted vintage, it's been demoted to a stem recorder and video chase machine.
It works well with the HDSPe cards and with the MadiFace card.  The only problem is the cards are not as hot swappable as we'd like, occasionally the HDSPe Settings will hang on card insertion.  If we start the machine with the card inserted it's always fine.

Hugh

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

Hi, on my MBP I've tryed this:
downloaded and installed the last driver (3.05)
inserted the hdspe madiface card
updated the firmware of the card
deleted the two files in library/preferences/audio  the files are com.apple.audio.SystemSettings.plist and com.apple.audio.DeviceSettings.plist
to delete the files, your system account password is required
reboot the computer
perform a disk permission rebuild
now the madifaces is working and the system don't freezes
that's in my case, now try it out and let us know if that solve the problem.
best regards

44

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

> updated the firmware of the card

That might be the only step really necessary. Since we added the workaround for the PCI power management many mysterious effects have vanished.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

And starting from 2010 the ExpressCard slot in Macbook Pros got more stable electrically (albeit still not running perfect, same applies to Thunderbolt). As a consequence the HDSPe is less affected by electrical issues of the MBP now, if at all.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

I've tryed to update the firmware, but without results, the MBP has freezed always. Only after deleting the two files mentioned the system was working stable. So, I think the problem is located at mac side, not in the rme firmware or driver.

Re: HDSPe ExpressCard freezes MacBook Pro

The freeze problem seem to be resolved. Many thanks to Enzo Congedi that has found the solution: go to system preference>energy savings and check the option better battery duration, log out and then relaunch your daw application with the Madiface inserted.
That's all. RME has to inform the clients about this behavior.