Topic: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Hello,

I have discovered a significant problem with Nuendo 5 and the RME MADI card. Thanks to Chris Ludwig at ADK computers there seems to be a work around but I just wanted to make sure that the folks at Steinberg and RME are aware of the issue. The deitals can be found here. The workaround is the 13th post from the top. Thanks


http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopi … 787#188787

www.davidaterry.com
www.sodiumglow.com
Host - Nashville Stienberg Users Group aka Club Cubase

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

HI RME folks,

I have system here and a customer also with the  same issue.

Problem:

Nuendo 5 or Cubase 5 32 bit or 64 bit drops out anywhere from 30 mins to 50mins consistently. The recording does not stop but the wave form stops and the waveform just draws a blank until you press stop or it punches out. When it stops the waveform snaps back to where the audio drops out.
There is still signal on the RME inputs, Total Mix and in the N5/C5 meters.
The 32 bit version drops out around 30 mins and the 64 bit version drops out between 40 to 50 mins.


PC System:
Intel X58 chip set
Intel i7 950 CPU
6 gigs DDR3 1600
1 500 gig OS 1 500 gig audio drive
NVidia 9500GT video card
latest drivers for motherboard and video card

Audio:
Nuendo 5.10 32 bit and 64 bit
Cubase 5.52 32 bit and 64 bit

RME HDSP MADI PCI card (FW 207, DRV 3.085
or
RME HDSP MADI pci-e card (FW 25 , drv 3.085)


Solution/workaround:

After testing all the computer components and testing the RME Cards on a separate machine.
Then trying various Windows and BIOs settings with no change.
I tried the base Nuendo/ Cubase 5.00 version and all the way up to the current versions with the same results.
When trying some settings in Nuendo I discovered that if Multi-processing was un-checked the recording worked correctly.
So retesting this with both C5/N5 32/64 it consistently recorded fine for longer times when the Multi-Processing settings were OFF in the application.

As part of the testing no other applications I tried long recording tests with had this issue.
These included Digicheck, Reaper and Sonar 8.5.

Hopefully you and or Steinberg can sort this out soon. Feel free to PM me for other details.
Here is a link to one of our customers having this issue for further details.
Nuendo Forum


Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Hey David,
Fancy meeting you here!

Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

ChrisADK wrote:

Hey David,
Fancy meeting you here!

Chris

Haha....ain't it though!

www.davidaterry.com
www.sodiumglow.com
Host - Nashville Stienberg Users Group aka Club Cubase

5

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

At this time I fail to see what our driver could do to prevent Cubendo from drawing waveforms, especially as all the audio data is still available and transported... ?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

HI Matthias,
The audio stops recording at the drop out but Cubendo is still drawing the wave form but blank. When stop is pressed the waveform does not save the blank part.
It reverts back to the point the audio dropped out.
The odd part is how turning off the multi-threading fixes the issue. This only seems to started happening and only on a a couple of machines that I'm aware of so far. The machines have different hard ware and software combination other than Windows 7 64 bit, Cubase or Nuendo 5 and a RME HDSP MADI card.
I'm trying to narrow down where the issue might be happening at this point. It is only happening in Cubendo 5.
I have not had a chance to try it with other RME cards to see if it is only happening with the MADI.
I will also be trying some tests with other non-RME cards over next few days. I've already contacted Steinberg on it so hopefully we can sort things out as to it being some interaction between the MADI/Cubendo or some computer related thing. With the issue only being on a couple machines it will be a pain to track down.
Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

MC wrote:

At this time I fail to see what our driver could do to prevent Cubendo from drawing waveforms, especially as all the audio data is still available and transported... ?

As Chris stated...the audio ceases to record at the point of the dropout. So when you press stop the only audio data you have is what was recorded prior to the dropout. The rest of the waveforms disappear!

This is happening on my Windows XP machine by the way...so it seems not to matter which OS you are running...XP or Win 7.

www.davidaterry.com
www.sodiumglow.com
Host - Nashville Stienberg Users Group aka Club Cubase

8

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Chris, there are two things to consider for a quick test: use the MADI cards with half the number of channels activated (F4), and try with a RME hardware that uses a different driver (Fireface 800). Halfing the number might double the record time or no longer show the problem at all. If it is still there try the FF 800 with all channels activated to test.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Hi Matthias,
Will give that a shot tomorrow. I'll also be testing a a non RME audio device or two see what's up.

Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Hi Matthias,
Ok some what of an update. Haven't been able to try the Fireface 800 or our MADI PCI-e card yet sense our Qa people were using them for system installs.
I was able to try a Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 and guess what! It did it also. It stopped in the same 40 to 50 min mark.
The strange thing is it still dropped  out after disabling Multi-Processor but it did at around the 1 hour 40 min mark.
I tried for the hell of it to swap video card to see if that was somehow messing with things.

This is on a P55A chip set board with only 8 gigs of ram.

I even swapped video cards from Nivida to ATI and tried Standard VGA on both with the same results.

It would seem to not be any direct RME/Steinberg issue so after i test the fireface I will be focusing on Steinberg and the computer more.

I really need a beer.

Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

IIRC, N5 and C5.5 have issues with long recording times with high track counts due to the new "high resolution" waveform drawing and RAM consumption issues (the rendering/drawing of the peak waveforms).  Look into the issue at the cubendo.com forums - lots of colorful discussion over there!

http://www.cubendo.com/showthread.php?2 … sults.....

IIRC you can disable the realtime creation of the peak waveforms, but you'll still have an issue once you open the project for mixing (the waveforms must be drawn at some point - and the RAM issues will appear at that time).  Kind of like how Cubase/Nuendo will start to have GUI issues with too much RAM and/or too many plug-ins are used.

Steinberg seems to say that a 64-Bit OS w/ lots of RAM and a 64-Bit version of Cubase/Nuendo are the "Solution" - but not a single other DAW application uses that much RAM for peak waveforms...

Sorry if this is unrelated - but I'm pretty sure that's what sodium glow is experiencing...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Randyman... wrote:

IIRC, N5 and C5.5 have issues with long recording times with high track counts due to the new "high resolution" waveform drawing and RAM consumption issues (the rendering/drawing of the peak waveforms).  Look into the issue at the cubendo.com forums - lots of colorful discussion over there!

http://www.cubendo.com/showthread.php?2 … sults.....

IIRC you can disable the realtime creation of the peak waveforms, but you'll still have an issue once you open the project for mixing (the waveforms must be drawn at some point - and the RAM issues will appear at that time).  Kind of like how Cubase/Nuendo will start to have GUI issues with too much RAM and/or too many plug-ins are used.

Steinberg seems to say that a 64-Bit OS w/ lots of RAM and a 64-Bit version of Cubase/Nuendo are the "Solution" - but not a single other DAW application uses that much RAM for peak waveforms...

Sorry if this is unrelated - but I'm pretty sure that's what sodium glow is experiencing...

cool

Thanks but my problem is unrelated to the RAM issue as far as I can tell. It has happened on my system was as few as 4 audio tracks @48k running for less than 40 minutes.

www.davidaterry.com
www.sodiumglow.com
Host - Nashville Stienberg Users Group aka Club Cubase

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

sodium glow wrote:

Thanks but my problem is unrelated to the RAM issue as far as I can tell. It has happened on my system was as few as 4 audio tracks @48k running for less than 40 minutes.

Missed that part - sorry.

I'm assuming you checked the task manager when this happens to be sure this has no relation to available RAM?  With only a few tracks I would doubt it as you hinted at - a quick peek at the task manager won't hurt.

The fact that a time delay is involved (and is related to other settings like Multiprocessing) does make me suspect RAM is being "eaten up" until "poof" - no more RAM.  The fact that the 64 bit version of Cubendo runs longer before the issue happens (as reported by Chris/ADK) also makes RAM consumption seem to be a viable suspect (just like the problem I linked to with huge track counts and long recording times).  Since the RME driver is consistent across these tests between 32/64 Cubendo and was also seen with a Sapphire Pro Interface we can likely eliminate the ASIO drivers as a culprit in my limited experience.

Best of luck in getting Steinberg to address this issue! cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

Hi Matthias,
Ok just finished a 2 hour record on a laptop using FF800 and the current driver with FF800 recording all 26 I/O with no issues.

The system is using an Intel i5 460m CPU and 8 gigs of ram.

It would seem to not have any direct relation at this point with and RME device sense it is also happening with Focusrite which uses the Dice II FW chip.
This seems to be between Steinberg and us. Gonna go though the BIOs and memory timings to see if there is some thing in there messing stuff up.
There have been some BIOS updates so perhaps something got broken in those.
I won't be able to get to that until next week sometime though. Joy Joy.
I'll post here with any resolutions.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig | ADK Pro Audio
www.adkproaudio.com
https://www.facebook.com/adkmg

15 (edited by sodium glow 2010-12-11 13:52:00)

Re: Possible Bug? Strange recoridng drop out using N5/C5/MADI card

ChrisADK wrote:

Hi Matthias,
Ok just finished a 2 hour record on a laptop using FF800 and the current driver with FF800 recording all 26 I/O with no issues.

The system is using an Intel i5 460m CPU and 8 gigs of ram.

It would seem to not have any direct relation at this point with and RME device sense it is also happening with Focusrite which uses the Dice II FW chip.
This seems to be between Steinberg and us. Gonna go though the BIOs and memory timings to see if there is some thing in there messing stuff up.
There have been some BIOS updates so perhaps something got broken in those.
I won't be able to get to that until next week sometime though. Joy Joy.
I'll post here with any resolutions.

Thanks Chris

Thanks Chris. But it can't be just between Steinberg and ADK because it happens on one of my systems that was built by someone else. And it is about 4 years old and running XP. I look forward to your findings!

www.davidaterry.com
www.sodiumglow.com
Host - Nashville Stienberg Users Group aka Club Cubase