Topic: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Are these both the same chip? Do they both sound the same?

http://recording.org

2 (edited by bigtree 2011-11-29 05:49:35)

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

bump ?

Does the UFX sound the same as the  ADI-8 QS

http://recording.org

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

The converters are similar, though not identical. Neither of the two has a particular "sound quality" by design, so whether or not you will hear a difference, and which, is something only your ears can tell you.
Everything else is subjective - one listeners "warm" may be another's "dull"....

I'm not aware of any scientifically valid double blind converter comparison that includes these two devices on any forum or so.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

4 (edited by bigtree 2011-12-04 21:55:52)

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Hello Daniel,

I've had people tell me that the ADI-8 QS sounds no better than the UFX which is $1000 less in cost. I bought into the ADI-8 QS because of quotes like this  below.

The ADI-8 QS is RME's reference - highest performance in every detail, at an unbeaten price/performance ratio!

If it sounds no better than the UFX, then I'm wondering what I paid for when sound quality is the sole detail I am interested in. From your answer, in a blind test I'm guessing it would be hard to tell the difference between the two then? smile (:

http://recording.org

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Hi,
The ADI8-QS does sound better technically but when you get into high quality AD/DA devices you tend to suffer from diminishing returns.

The differences in audible sound quality is very tough for some one even under even the best conditions to detect with just their ears reliably.
When there is a noticeable difference it almost always ends up being level mis-matching, pan law, clocking. In some cases some "high -end" AD/DA intentionally color or alter the sound. Usually in some attempt to emulate the effect processing nature of a analog tape or a tube driven circuit.
Thankfully RME does not do this as part of it's design.  smile

RME designs their product to be as transparent and uncolored as possible at their given price ranges. You are paying for a different feature set of the ADI8-QS over the UFX.

Whether or not you need that feature set I think is the question.

I have no idea what current gear you have that you want to replace, upgrade or add on to so I cannot give  good answer as to which would be the best choice for you.

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Hey Chris / Mods / Ect.,

While we're on the topic of the UFX, can any of you comment on how RME achieves "transparency" in conversion?  I know that the UFX is using a Cirrus CS5368 on the AD and a (Burr Brown I think) PCM4104 on the DA, but how does RME approach the analog side of the signal chain as to not purposely color the sound?  This is generally the "make it or break it" side of any interface, and being a current UFX owner I'd love to hear a little more behind the design concept of this box and what makes it different than all the other interfaces out there.

Cheers,
Ryan

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Good thread happening here smile Welcome Ryan!

Thank you for explaining this in more detail!  I am very satisfied with the ADI-8 QS'. The options it has were also why I bought them. Just wanted/needed some clarification on the actual converters between the two explained, which you did so well. Cheers! Now I can comment on them when compared.
Anything more you can add would be appreciated. For example. I would love to have panning laws explain more in detail?

Next question please:  Does the UFX have the same pre-amps as the Micstacy? I'm also told they do. Can someone please clarify this?

http://recording.org

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Thanks for the welcome, Bigtree.  Figured since I received my UFX, I'd get well acquainted with the RME forum too.

Regarding the preamps, I believe the UFX uses the PGA2500 chip ... but I'm not sure what the Micstacy uses.  Regardless, seems like a similar preamp setup as the Prism Orpheus.  They sound great, have a really low noise floor, and are crystal clear.  I've put a few German and Australian tube mics through them, and they do a perfect job of not getting in the way.  Very versatile pres. 

Just as a note, coming from a Pro Tools HD Rig and 192's, I've been very impressed with this UFX.  Sounds just as good or better to my ears.

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Hi Avening,

I've thought about getting an Orpheus more than once. Even debating it again. It would be impressive if the UFX sounds comparable. I would love to find out if they are indeed close enough for both the convertor and the preamps.

Good to hear your opinion on them coming from PT. I have an old Pro Tools Mix plus system here that is in the closet. I miss Pro tools  software but not the hardware at all.

Looking forward to more discussion in this thread? Anyone confirm the preamps being the same as the Micstacy?

http://recording.org

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Micstasy and UFX use the same preamp design and technology (chips), but include a different AD converter design. The Micstasy provides spectacular SNR specifications and a gain range of 85 dB. The UFX on the other hand provides the new advanced parallel conversion on the preamp inputs to match the quality of the preamps.

The differences in both designs are of course based on the different needs and the designated use for both devices. The Micstasy is special customized as a remote controllable (MADI) frontend for the for the specific task of recording 8 mics with the best possible quality and integrates a lot of high-end technology and small, but important features (e. g. 8 analog XLR outputs with up to 27 dBu). This results not only in the price difference between both products, but in different usage scenarios. The Micstasy canot replace the UFX and despite it's four comparable preamps the UFX canot replace the Micstasy in it's special field, like the recording of multiple mics in classical concerts via a MADI setup. It's still a highly integrated audio interface with universal usability - and allows to connect a Micstasy to it if the jobs needs it.

Maybe this helps: a collection of user statements from www.gearslutz.com to the UFX can be found here. Many reviewers have something to say about the preamps and the conversion.

best regards
Knut

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

Admin Knut wrote:

Micstasy and UFX use the same preamp design and technology (chips), but include a different AD converter design. The Micstasy provides spectacular SNR specifications and a gain range of 85 dB. The UFX on the other hand provides the new advanced parallel conversion on the preamp inputs to match the quality of the preamps.

The differences in both designs are of course based on the different needs and the designated use for both devices. The Micstasy is special customized as a remote controllable (MADI) frontend for the for the specific task of recording 8 mics with the best possible quality and integrates a lot of high-end technology and small, but important features (e. g. 8 analog XLR outputs with up to 27 dBu). This results not only in the price difference between both products, but in different usage scenarios. The Micstasy canot replace the UFX and despite it's four comparable preamps the UFX canot replace the Micstasy in it's special field, like the recording of multiple mics in classical concerts via a MADI setup. It's still a highly integrated audio interface with universal usability - and allows to connect a Micstasy to it if the jobs needs it.

Maybe this helps: a collection of user statements from www.gearslutz.com to the UFX can be found here. Many reviewers have something to say about the preamps and the conversion.

best regards
Knut

Thanks for that info.

Can you comment on the analog stages of the UFX?  I know that the UFX employs an 8-Channel Cirrus CS5368 IC on the AD stage and a Burr Brown PCM4104 on the DA, but what do the analog stages before the AD, and after the DA look like?  (Obviously very high level ... not asking you to post schematics or anything).  Can you walk us through?

Only reason I ask is that many other manufacturers use similar converter chips, but employ different analog designs making the interfaces sound different from each other.  I know RME takes the approach of not adding anything to the sound, and I'm just curious as to how that is accomplished.

Thanks.

Re: UFX vs ADI-8 QS

At least part of this post deals with price/value and performance. My experiences with two UFX units indicate that to audition differences, for equipment of this class, you need to listen through extremely hi end DACs. I use the flexible 2 channel Weiss 202 DAC which, not suprisisingly for its $7700 cost, provides an substantial up grade in conversion quality in comparision to my UFX.

The Weiss uses double sampling from an ESS 9018 chip (the other half is used for double clocking the headset output).  But, as noted on this forum, its not just the chip but the design because the Oppo BDP 95 uses a quad over sampled 9018 for L/R out and it is not in the same class as the Weiss.

My real world experience suggests that a to get a significantly higher/better A to D conversion you would want to use your favorite boutique mic preamp connected to a "mastering quality" ADC such as the top of the line Weiss, Lavry or Mytek. These dual channel converters cost in the range of $3500 per channel and will, in no way, compensate for poor mic selection, placement or quality